President Obama has said that he will not send more troops into Afghanistan for a classic “surge” until a viable strategy is formed and there is a stable, participatory government in place. Clearly there is, as yet no government that is in control of Afghanistan, a country prone to civil war. But he knew this BEFORE the Afghan election.
The White House may also be laying aside the McChrystal request for additional troops because it came in the midst of White House consideration of a possible shift in policy. But where is General McChrystal? In solitary confinement? Or has he resigned?
Regardless, our military needs a Commander-in-Chief with spine and the ability to act swiftly and decisively. Every minute he hesitates, more of our men and women are at risk. He had to go to Dover. Those deaths are at his door.
The following videos further outline the scope of the difficulty faced in the region. These videos have been carefully selected and bear significant data on the current situation in Afghanistan, Pakistan and the White House.
Daniel Ellsberg – the man who released the “Pentagon Papers” during the Vietnam War” weighs in on the inevitability of defeat in Afghanistan and what is at stake for Obama as he decides what to do.
[YouTube=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MGVHUMhWdpE&feature=PlayList&p=EEA31FAB6C1C88BF&playnext=1&playnext_from=PL&index=16]
This week the administration arrived in Pakistan in the form of Secretary of State Hillary Clinton. While Mrs. Clinton visited Islamabad, a car bomb blast killed 100 or more innocent civilians at a local marketplace in Peshawar:
The Taliban seem determined both to weaken the government of Pakistan and to draw us into a war there. However, the government of Pakistan President continues to limit the US to certain areas where drone attacks have been sanctioned. It is hoped that Hillary Clinton’s visit this week to try to reduce anti-American sentiment may turn the tide in the future role of US troops in country.
Clearly Europe and America are concerned about the nuclear armaments there. Were Pakistan to become a militant Islamist republic, a war with its neighbor, India could turn nuclear. Here is her message to the Pakistani people and the militant Islamists following the tragedy at Peshawar:
But could this be the determining factor in Obama’s decision:
If additional troops are sent to Afghanistan, we had better pray they are posted in and around Pakistan.
__________________________
References
Los Angeles Times – It’s Pakistan’s War Too
MSNBC – U.S. to shift from Afghanistan to Pakistan?
___________________________________________
VotingFemale Speaks! – Obama’s Two Faces Stimulates 912ers March to coming elections (videos)
Hot Air – Did White House pressure NYT into changing Dover story?
Sister Toldjah – Thursday Open Thread
Foxwood – Revolutionary War – Why we fought
LisaInTX
October 30, 2009
SamH
Well done post!
I’m responding to the first video and fixing to listen to the second. What stands out like a red flag to me in this one is the fact that Nobama stated in one pre-election vid that his ‘strategy” included that MORE troops were needed in Afganistan.
Now, it’s like he NEVER had any “strategy” which was MY FIRST thought to begin with since he was NEVER in the military ranks to know what the HELL he was talking about to begin with!
The man is FULL of bullcrap and as my dad used to say “Roll up your pant legs, the bull$hit is getting deep!”
samhenry
October 30, 2009
Hi – good to see you! I had forgot about that pre-election lie. That is all he knows how to do and our boys are dying as a result. I appreciate it that you took the time to listen to at least the first vid. It is telling.
LisaInTX
October 30, 2009
I have ZERO faith in our current federal government! Most are CORRUPT and a total disgrace to even be referred to as Americans!
Here is just ONE example of their traitrous and shameless acts!
Barack Obama signed the $680 billion defense authorization bill Wednesday. The bill contains the unrelated provision extending so-called “hate crimes” protections to homosexuals and others with gender-disorientation pathology. The measure had failed on its own for years, so Democrats shamelessly attached it to the must-pass defense bill. That failure is largely due to the fact that it makes certain thoughts a crime. Rep. Mike Pence (R-IN) summed it up: “Hate crimes legislation is antithetical to the First Amendment, unnecessary and will have a chilling effect on religious freedom.”
Meanwhile, the defense bill contains provisions far more deleterious to national defense, such as terminating production of the F-22. Of gutting the nation’s air superiority, Obama crowed that he was being fiscally responsible: “When Secretary Gates and I first proposed going after some of these wasteful projects, there were a lot of people who didn’t think it was possible, who were certain we were going to lose, who were certain that we were going to get steamrolled. Today, we have proven them wrong.” He then added, “There’s still more fights that we need to win.” (Like the fight against bad grammar, maybe?)
Obviously, to Democrats, “defense” means pushing aberrant sexual behavior while leaving the nation defenseless.
LisaInTX
October 30, 2009
Video two….McCrystal was running “Death squads” in Iraq and he compares them to the French in Alger’s…hmmmmmmm…..how interesting
My thoughts are this, either send in MORE troops and more firepower to WIN against the Islamic extremist……or pull our troops out of there…..cut and dry. But DON’T leave our current soldiers there to be outnumbered and fodder!
We do NOT need to rebuild their nation…..IMO…..if they will not fight for their own, then let them kill each other off, but not ONE more American life is worth loosing over there as I see it.
Let them kill each other off and let God sort them out. A bit blunt and callous I know, but rather that then to betray and abandon our own.
samhenry
October 30, 2009
Lisa – again, I cannot agree with you more. Isn’t McCrystal’s history amazing. Obama chose a vampire for a general. I am sick for our troops. No wonder they are depressed and suicide rate is going higher. It is immoral. I just don’t understand his delay. A leader is quick and decisive. In the military that is key as you well know. I am so glad you son is HOME.
LisaInTX
October 30, 2009
Ooops, sorry, I was unclear in my comment. I was referring to the interview where the guy spoke about McCrystal and I was being sarcastic…..he could very well be a vampire gen from hell—-but I’ve not heard much about him. I’d need to research his past before I’d say he was in charge of “Death Squads”.
To me that is a serious accusation and the bitch man better have FACTS and PROOF to back his remarks.
samhenry
October 30, 2009
I was furious they canned production of the F22 – the workhorse of our defense. We will be sorry someday.
LisaInTX
October 30, 2009
My oldest son has moved back from south Texas. Our youngest is still in Iraq, due home in Jan if all goes as planned.
The F-22 was our future, but I heard that the plans were sold by a traitor??? But what else can we expect when our own damned government outsources the makings of our TOP SECRET weapons!
roxannadanna
October 30, 2009
God bless your sons, Lisa.
LisaInTX
October 30, 2009
Thank you Roxi. I really worry about them, but that is what most good mama’s do. :-]
LisaInTX
October 30, 2009
Hillary is so lame. “Build a special relationship based on trust and mutual respect”??? LMAO….yeah….I bet the Georgian Republic are LOVING this…hahahaaaa
Yeah we can have world peace!!!! We can end all the suffering and disputes over there —- societies that have fought each other for thousands of years!!!
Damn these people like Hillary, make me sick with their TWO FACED lying spew!!!
I think America is damned sick and tired of fighting WAR after WAR after WAR and being left out on the battlefield to die because these a-hole LYING-DOG politicians ignore their OWN promises and obligations when it suits and benefits them.
samhenry
October 30, 2009
Now Lisa, be fair. Poor Hillary wouldn’t know a a “special relationship based on trust and mutual respect” if she fell across it. Poor woman has to go get into international politics to try to experience it! lol
There will always be wars. We have just got to learn we don’t have to be the ones fighting them. If they are in an area of natural resources we need then let’s change how we live rather than plot how we will die fighting for “stuff.”
And your point about thousands of years is a good one. That is the key. I tell you, we really should have sat out the search for the holy grail. Who the heck said it was in the middle east? Who the heck said we should have it? lol
LisaInTX
October 30, 2009
SH
LOL!!!
I’m trying to be fair to her—heck I even voted for her!! But she has sure lost my trust with her BS since she became SOS…..hell I’ve been sending up an S-O-S to God in hope he will have mercy on us poor dimwits that have ignored our country for the past 50 years, allowing the socialist to sneak in and screw everything up.
And searching for the holy grail will most likely be easier than getting Nobama to turn over his REAL birth certificate and school transcripts…lol
roxannadanna
October 30, 2009
Yaron Brook of the Ayn Rand institute said on a PJTV interview that America knows how to win this war and should either do so of get out. He’s right. With these politicians who have never worn a uniforn (and an ACORN t-shirt doesn’t qualify) it’s always half measures – never stepping in and finishing the job.
He is a coward-in-chief, not commander. And that difference is not lost on our soldiers.
This is a very thought-provoking blog. Well, done!
Roxy
samhenry
October 30, 2009
Thanks very much, Roxy and thanks for stopping by. I thoroughly agree with your asessment of 1/2 measures. It is why we lost in Vietnam and it is why we are losing now. I lived through the Nam era. My brothers fought there. Talk about morale. I will say, though, with a draft, everybody was feeling it. With this so-called volunteer army, not everyone feels the pain. Obama is responsible for the high number of fatalities this last month. His slowness to support our boys made them easy targets. I’d like to take the keys to Airforce one Away for a week so he’d stay home and make up his damn mind!
LisaInTX
October 30, 2009
Roxy
LMAO at the ACORN uniform….hahahaaa…..or SEIU purple shirts….hahaha…yeah that is the uniform of leftist choice. They have no loyalty to this country except to use it and wring every penny they can out of those that have worked their butts off to make a living.
They are just like the wretched carpet baggers after the Civil war.
I agree about the half measures. This is an outrage to those that are fighting over there! Either go in and win or pull our soldiers out of there!
roxannadanna
October 30, 2009
From what I understand, only 1 family agreed to allow the press to report the return of their loved one at Dover. The remaining families said no. That explains the video more clearly.
LisaInTX
October 30, 2009
I would love to see a link to that news source if either of you have one? Thanks
samhenry
October 30, 2009
Roxy – you are correct. Only one family gave him permission. He looked very unsettled to me in the video.
Have VF make a link from your ID to your blog. I had a heck of a time locating it. It’s a great blog.
VotingFemale
October 31, 2009
Interesting choice of words you picked, SamH.
“Obama chose a vampire for a general.”
So… you consider McChrystal to be a vampire, I see.
“Daniel Ellsberg – the man who released the “Pentagon Papers” during the Vietnam War” weighs in on the
inevitability of defeatin Afghanistan and what is at stake for Obama as he decides what to do.”</emDaniel Ellsberg is an anti-american communist who sides with the enemies of the United States.
from: http://wikiality.wikia.com/Daniel_Ellsberg
and I quote:
It appears to me the message of this blogpost is anti-war, anti-McChrystal, and spanks Obama for dithering instead of pulling troops out and letting the Taliban fill the void in Afghanistan thus giving aid and comfort to the sworn enemy of the United States …Al Qaeda.
The present of troops in Afghanistan is to strangle Al Qaeda from growing stronger and to kill every last stinking one of the bastards.
Running from the enemy is the way of cowards …just as rolling over to the Communist Politicians in this government in this country is the act of cowards.
This blogpost is well crafted… to further the agenda of weakness in the face of the enemy, in my opinion.
samhenry
October 31, 2009
1. I can’t see where I have called McChrystal a “vampire.” Perhaps one of the vids did that.
2. Vids were not chosed to support one way or the other of proceeding in Afghanistan. They were chosen to
The following videos further outline the scope of the difficulty faced in the region. These videos have been carefully selected and bear significant data on the current situation in Afghanistan, Pakistan and the White House.
It is a scope – a spectum of what may be going on. Vietnam is still in our minds – mine anyway. Had our men (my brothers) been given support and material, we could have won.
The same thing is going on here and Obama delays and our men die.”
I said about this:
Regardless, our military needs a Commander-in-Chief with spine and the ability to act swiftly and decisively. Every minute he hesitates, more of our men and women are at risk. He had to go to Dover. Those deaths are at his door.
In short I have said he has blood on his hands. I don’t think you can get a much stronger statement than that.
In short, I have presented all sides of this issue but have come down on the side of Obama not being the President who can do the job. His delays are cowardly “he has no spine” and deadly for our men. He is not presidential. He is waging the war as a professor in some university who has to debate the issue before taking action. What’s to debate. My words:
Clearly there is, as yet no government that is in control of Afghanistan, a country prone to civil war. But he knew this BEFORE the Afghan election.
In other words, a decision could have been made months ago.
This post has been graced by the gold star banner in honor of those families who have lost loved ones. Why would I support an administration that has done this. It is a silent but yet loud statement hanging there. I guess this was not crafted clearly enough for you to see that I bracketed the videos with my own opinions. J
VotingFemale
November 1, 2009
I copied the statement I quoted directly from your blogpost above.
It obviously disappeared from the blogpost. I am not in the habit of making stuff up.
However it came to pass that is is now gone is of no interest to me.
VotingFemale
October 31, 2009
vocal strong fact based “in their face” opposition to communists seeking more power each day within the government of the United States is the reason there is a first amendment.
one of their tactics is to attempt to convince folks resistance is futile… that they have more powers than they have… in order to weaken those who oppose them.
it is like a subtle Tokyo Rose tactic… “you cant win” “you are fighting a losing battle” “give up”
we are not going to just “settle down” and accept it as inevitable… and neither did occupied France in WWII.
There is no surrender to the Communists… and our freedom of speech is the weapon we use…. our will is undaunted… and our votes unstoppable.
Folks who do not understand those they oppose are destined to lose…
That goes for both sides… and the Communists do not have the moral high ground.
VotingFemale
October 31, 2009
we Conservatives probably could benefit from sending sleepers into the blogosphere posing as liberals and implanting subliminal pro-capitalism/pro-free market thinking into what appears to be a pro-liberal presence within the liberal circles.
devious? all is fair in love and war…
samhenry
October 31, 2009
It is the biological term – a group that is what it is and is no other – FRIENDS. Meant to be special. This is a dog’s blog and these are his groupings.
samhenry
October 31, 2009
I am not a chemist, engineer, biologist ‘ I am me, SamHenry. I am a gentle creature unless annoyed. I love the language and to write. I have strong principles that include allowing all voices in my posts and then to override them with my own. That to me is one way students of history proceed. I want there to be a full picture so that I may better be placed in the spectrum. I have come from Vietnam to here and have landed as a conservative unless you think I should not link to the network?
VotingFemale
October 31, 2009
Look in your original version before you edited out the vampire sentence…. I copied the sentence verbatim from your blogpost.
wordpress saves all versions…
SamH wrote…
1. I can’t see where I have called McChrystal a “vampire.” Perhaps one of the vids did that.
samhenry
October 31, 2009
VF – if you have that version, I think you will see that it was a quote from one of my sources. I will dig it out.
I can get to all my versions – how can you?
samhenry
November 1, 2009
VF, I can’t find it. The only “vampire” in the news was when that congressman called Cheney a “vampire.”
If you go through my blogposts, you will see that I have the utmost respect for General Satanley McChrystal. See especially
In another article, https://samandimp.wordpress.com/2009/09/13/afghanistan-should-we-be-there-could-we-ever-win/, I support a Brit with long-time experience in Afghanistan. He is not anti-war, he is pro fighting in the area with minimum, powerful troops (special forces) with realistic goals – to contain or destroy Al Quaeda in Pakistan while continuing to help the Afghan people in improving living conditions, commerce, etc. He recommends we drop the goal of nation-building in an area that does not recognize the concept. It is tribal. But he also notes that Al Quaeda no longer needs bases of operation that are either large or located in the region. That is why special forces would be all we need in the region.
I have edited this last post to be clearer in my message. I am not always clear as you know. You are forceful to envoke clarity. I am less so but just as doggedly determined to make my point. We compliment each other because we garner readership of both styles.
The article I quote there is an assessment of the situation in Afghanistan and HIS view that Obama does not have either a clear view of it and that he is exaggerating fears about the Area that are unrealistic.
It is not so much an anti-war message as a message about what is reasonably attainable in the context of his thesis.
I am not anti-war. I am pro sending our troops and spending our dollars in areas where they will be effective and the outcomelong-lasting under the care of the local governments.
I agree with him that special forces would be more effective in keeping Al Quaeda in check in Pakistan. We can achieve minimally what others seek to do with maxium force.
In other words, I am not anti-war and I believe he is not either. He is for doing it in a way that makes it possible to reach obtainable goals – ones that do not threaten our safety and security.
VotingFemale
November 1, 2009
SamHenry,
You are free to have what ever opinions and POVs you have. I like debate and when we differ it is good to debate the differences.
I suggest you drop the issue about the disappearing statement I copy pasted about McChrystal being a vampire general.
I did not make it up. It was there, I copied it and quoted it. However it came to pass that you deleted it is of no concern to me.
I am just trying to figure out where you stand politically, SamH.
If you are a moderate on the left or the right that is no sin. Have your opinions and POVs and debate them.
If you see yourself as a ‘conservative’ then your opinions and POVs will bear that out.
Just be forthright about where you stand politically… is all I am saying.
If folks pretend to be one thing and it does not agree with their opinions and POVs I will bore in on it out and peel back the layers of the onion to discover what is what.
Rosehips and I have always been friends… even though she and I are polar opposites on virtually all things political.
You and I are friends regardless of any political differences or POVs.
Just be consistent…
Both the Far Left and the Far Right dump on Obama. That is a fact. But they do it for diametrically opposite reasons.
If you are opposed to the US presence in Afghanistan, make your case. And we will debate it.
While I am opposed to demonizing of human beings on the basis of their sexual orientation, I oppose the radial behavior of their coalition of power… and oppose anyone who gives a wink and nod to a safe school czar who advocates Queering of Elementary Education.
I dont give a flying F that he is a gay man… I give a flying F that he promotes the Queering of Elementry Education K through grade 5 and that his past behaviors includes cozing up with a NAMBLIA ASSHAT and the deal with him approving of a 16 yo boy who got lured into sex with an adult male.
You characterized him as “gayish” and tacitly defended him… we debated it.
Just take a clear cut stand on stuff. and be prepared to defend and debate it.
just sayin’ dear
samhenry
November 1, 2009
I do not wish to drop the point that you have said there was a sentence in my post I NEVER had in it. Provide you PROOF. I can copy out all of my drafts or give you permission to do so. This kind of thing is one of honesty. I am not dishonest.
I am not inconsistent. I said at one point for Obama to listen to his General because he appointed him
I think the Brut author who set forth is premise about doing the job with fewer forces has a point.
I will not come down on either side of this issue definitively because I am not on the ground there. These men are experts and have interesting theories. Regardless, I AM FOR WINNING AND BOTH WANT THAT.
I NEVER said we should cut and run. We did that in Viet Nam where my brother fought. Do you not think that I am intimately involved in what happens to servicemen?
I am not up to defending the fact that I am capable of entertaining more than one view. Scientific method is that you form your hypothesis and then prove it. I am forming my hypothesis. These other men have and have proved it.
It is like poetry. There is more than one way to analyze a poem BUT the evidence MUST be in that poem and you must defend your theory often by drawing upon the body of work of that author. My body of work NEVER suggested that Obama was right about MUCH. No one is wrong about everything.
In short, I am not a moderate – I feel strongly about DECISIONS I have reached. I feel STRONGLY about winning in Afghanistan (we have cut and run in Iraq). We have to. It will be tough because in thousands of years, no outsider has – including famous, powerful leaders from history. MY DECISION IS TO STAY ON. MY INDECISION IS HOW TO DO IT.
I am conservative wholly in areas of finance and in the issue of states rights. I am still a Registered Republican. I have at times independent views. I don’t vote party, I vote issues and candidates.
I am not a faux anything. Anyone who puts his/her views out there is not hiding anything.
I will go ahead now and give you access to my account so that you can see my drafts.
VotingFemale
November 1, 2009
I also want to point out that the Friends Blog’s venue is and was defined as full bore conservative… and I stopped it being morphed in the direction of the center by it’s former editor… which was you, SamH.
You are free to have your POVs and I support your right to them.
I doubt anyone who reads my blog has any doubt where I am on the political spectrum… I am not vague about it… and I say what I do and do what I say.
The morphing of school books into a Leftist Perspective on History and Sociology is documented and well known… and it is a political tactic of the socialists/progressives/communists to transform this Country.
And I will fight that shit tooth and nail and bore in on it like a laser.
samhenry
November 1, 2009
Now you are an administrator. Have at it and let’s not muddy the waters with the outcome. Some things belong between friends in e-mails.
You can recite any times you have cut me down but the focus this AM is what I have said on this blog.
samhenry
November 1, 2009
You will remain an administrator. You will know everything. I have full trust in you.
samhenry
November 1, 2009
I am more than willing to die for my views but since I believe in free speech, unlike the liberal media, I will reserve that right for them to do so – and I will quote them from time to time.
I am not a claws out cat always in pounce position. There is nothing wrong with your way of proceeding. Certainly you have more viewers each day than I.
But my method is my method. My ideas are, in the main, conservative. I have given you administrato privileges so that you can do a blog post here anytime. This blog welcomes you. It is in keeping with the blog to have your views here in full.
I cannot deal with commentators who are constantly questioning my integrity. Your criticism runs close to that line at times.
samhenry
November 1, 2009
You say that friendship is not based on views but I am not sure of that. The verocity of your criticism says otherwise.
I have chosen to have a blog that welcomes all commers as the tab says. If that is being hazy then so beit.
I respect your views; I don’t always condone your methods. It is a draw for us on this point.
samhenry
November 1, 2009
PS – I sometimes link to and comment on liberal blogs. I think it is important to get my views out to all. If I limit myself to other conservatives, it would be like talking to myself. I look to an occasional convert as you have converted me AS I AM.
Your characterization of me is odious but I accept it. You are not a skunk!
VotingFemale
November 1, 2009
We have now sorted things out over the vampire general statement privately in emails…
and it appears we both are willing to let that sleep now.
I consider you to be a Patriot… and a wiser wordpress blogger having some of the subtle but powerful wordpress tools explained.
now… lets move on to the issue of withdrawal verses stand and fight in Afghanistan from a position of superior US Forces.
Shall we?
That is the debate at hand.
samhenry
November 2, 2009
I do respect the General’ s assessment – he is on the ground there. But were I sitting down with him I would want to discuss all options. I might ask: Would our massed troops in Afghanistan be akin to the red coated Brits in our woods on our own territory where we, the first guerilla troops, hit them hard from behind bushes, etc. while they marced out in formation in the open>
The parallel is not exact. I would ask him if the alternative of relying primarily on special forces would work better – perhaps with massed backup. This may already be the MO. It is hard to know because we cannot know. But this we do know: There are fewer of them and they have us over a barrel with their abillity to move freely among the locals and to know where to effectively bury land mines. Like us during the revolution, they had the same home turf advantage.
HOWEVER, that said, I support the decsions of our Generals. I agree with you that aside from the Taliban and Al-Quaeda forces right where we are fithting, this is a movement not a country. This was devastatingly bought home this week when we learned that an Al-Quaeda-inspired Somali group has threatened Israel over their perception that Israel is destroying the mosque that is part of a complex we call temple mount. http://www.cnn.com/2009/WORLD/meast/11/01/somalia.israel.threat/index.html
The group is a sub-group of Al-Shabab, called “Mujahedin Al Aqsa,” or “Al Aqsa Holy Warriors,” which they said is assigned to attack Israel.
This group is fighting in Afghanistan with al-quaeda and has also taken their movement to attacks in Kenya, Ethiopia and other east-African nations with western ties or troops.
You will remember that it is the Somali pirates that are reapping huge rewards for the return of shipping they capture. This alone requires a forceful response from all nations. A Chinese vessel was recently attacked.
I will say this: WE HAVE TO WIN IN AFGHANISTAN and to rout out AL-QUAEDA and their spporters there and in Pakistan. Not the least of the reasons is that the west cannot afford to give these deamons another victory over a major western power. In the final analysis Russia will cooperate since they are too close to the area and run the risk of attack no matter their position relative to Iran.
The Europeans – western and eastern – and all of NATO need to stand firm. We can do this as long as teose countries are still run by natives of western descent. Sadly, Belgium, Holland, England and Noway are now in “crtical” condition from the influx of Muslim immigrants. In England the immigrants are openly promising to overthrow the government. Make no mistake, they aim to kill us from within. Just last week a group in Michigan was overcome. The group were plotting the overthrow of the state of Michigan. It is interesting that some groups here will go on a state-by-state basis. That is a new concept in this war.
We are, then, agreed that this is a global war against what is not a global movement. The critical battle is now in Afghanistan.
I am 1/2 convinced the General’s classic surge will work. BUT I am willing to trust his judgment. (AS if I have the power to do otherwise!) I will stand solidly behind him and the troops no matter the methodology chosen. In this, I am one of their civilian soldiers. I am only ASKING if the alternative could work and am drawing on our history of warfare in our own nation for an example of an alternative. I am one of those who like to run various theories up and down the flagpole.
I will not stand idly by and watch western culture and its people fall victim to these mindless barbarians. It is unfortunate that in each generation we need to fight the forces of barbarism that would return us to the dark ages.
Hiter was an easy target compared with this. God protect us. We no longer have the religious ferver or even the national ferver to fight these religious terrorists who have hijacked the Muslim religion.
HOWEVER on this last point, Muslims, unlike other religions, come with a law that will not allow a separation of “church” and state. Their religious law is it. They look to have their law overthrow English law within 10 years.