I really like a morning prayer to be back in schools and to be the big generic God it always was in those prayers. I like to allow Jews their menorah and Christians their creche at the winter “holidays,”in public places but I’m not at all sure I like the idea of H
im messing with either the weather or the candidates for election 2012.
God in the mind of a candidate – who has to hear about it? God as studied by Rabbis, the clergy or mullahs, and etc. makes for a good forum on TV and in their individual houses of worship need to be taken seriously. But God and his actions as perceived by a candidate for President – whoa.
Some candidates – mainly Republican – appear as more Godly than others are convinced that the earth quakes, hurricanes and floods are the result of God’s wrath at our country in general,and no doubt on the government in Washington. When I see toads and locusts perhaps I will begin to see this. I don’t even see global warming in this matter only earth and it’s atmosphere going about their business. God never promised Adam and Eve a rose garden did he?
It has been reported the Michele Bachman “jokingly” put God behind our recent natural disasters. But in all seriousness, she finished up her speech on the matter yesterday and intoned:
“Oh Father God, I thank you that we are privileged to be here this morning in Iowa, one of the most beautiful states I’ve ever been privileged to be in.”
Then, the sky outside thundered, and raindrops pounded on the roof.
“Lord, we hear you, Father, in the thunder,” she continued, eyes closed tightly. “We lift up our president to you today. We lift up the Supreme Court. We lift up the senators. We lift up the house members, Lord, as they grapple with this issue of how they deal with the finances for our nation.”
The sky thundered again. The pouring rain continued. [NY Magazine]
I do not profess to know the mind of God and it’s a sure thing I don’t want to vote for someone who does. Limitless powers of perception like that are suspect and I think dangerous. The discussion 2012 should focus on what we here can control better than we do now: spending, spending and spending. This takes in all of the issues – the budget, economic reform, ending the wars, and etc. We haven’t really done a great job at controlling the possibly controllable in our lives. That’s not God’s fault, is it?
The Morb
August 30, 2011
Before mankind can take the next step in its’ evolution … If it hopes to remain in existence … We HAVE to lose this ‘ close your eyes and wail ‘ to a god nonsense !!! … It concerns me greatly that a ‘ First Lady ‘ of the United States of America could be so primitive and naive about life on this planet !!! … Her words you quoted above came close to making me ill thinking about the people in this world that still cling to those pagan , HUMAN MIND CREATED fantasies and fairy tales … And to think some of them ‘ rise ‘ to the place in society to be ‘ LEADERS ‘ … It is quite a sad commentary on the overall mindset of the so called ‘ dominating species ‘ on this planet …
These ‘ gods ‘ are for people that can’t think … But choose to cling to the safety of the thought that ‘ someone ‘ or some ‘ deity ‘ is in charge .. And that makes them rest well at night … As they can lay the blame for their lack of judgement and lack of mental fortitude on a shoulder that doesn’t exist …
And all they have to do , in return for the favour , is construct buildings and take a few minutes out of each day to ‘ worship ‘ this man made mirage … And they feel better about themselves …
WHAT A LOAD OF TRIPE !!! …
Sorry Sam … Had to get that off my chest …
samhenry
September 1, 2011
Hey My Morb – you know you can get anything off your chest here at SamHenry’s blog. Never doubt that. It’s an open forum. Tolerance is the operative word here. We only learn through discussing divergent views.
samiam60
September 1, 2011
I like the idea of seeing our future political leaders expressing a Faith in God. After all, America is in serious trouble and seems to have turned her back on God in recent years. I am reminded of a Bible Verse that seems to sum up our Greatest Need today in America:
If my people, which are called by my name, shall humble themselves, and pray, and seek my face, and turn from their wicked ways; then will I hear from heaven, and will forgive their sin, and will heal their land.
Chronicles 7:14
samiam60
September 1, 2011
SamHenry asks:
God never promised Adam and Eve a rose garden did he?
To answer your question SamHenry: Yes! God did promise Adam and Eve a Rose Garden in giving them a Paradise to inhabit.
They only had to keep One Commandment.
The rest of the story is our history.
samiam60
September 1, 2011
I recently wrote an Article about America’s plight and what we as a people can do to turn it around. I would like to share it with all of you:
http://votingamerican.wordpress.com/2011/08/21/america-needs-to-repent/
samhenry
September 1, 2011
Sami, I am deeply moved by your thoghtful and heart-felt response to this post.
Religion and its place in our society has been a big topic since prayers were booted out of schools and has intensified since 9/11 when we were attacked by a segment of Muslim society who were motivated by deep faith. History has shown that people with deep faith and a commitment to something greater than themselves generally succeed as they did that day.
Deep and abiding faith in God is not the sole province of Republicans on the right and extreme right. Their open and often what I term obsessive reference to their religious beliefs in a political context makes me very uncomfortable. My religion is personal and private. It is publicly expressed through my actions in response to God’s Commandments. Religion and Politics and discussions about them have been the two things that have driven men/women to fisticuffs over centuries. It is doing so again. It is not bringing us together, it is dividing us.
Should we be God-fearing?. Yes. We live in “one nation under God.” But it does not mean that one man’s God should dominate the discussion. I do not live to convert people to my religion other than through my life style. It it appeals to someone then I am there to answer questions and to help direct. But to put forth one’s belief system in the middle of a political debate is, in my mind, to really lower the beauty and grace that comes from belief. That is how I feel toward Muslims and Christians – all religious people everywhere. No group can claim the godhead as his own. He protects and loves us all equally.
I have read your very excellent post. Here is a portion of it:
The problems we all face today are far greater than anything we as a people can handle on our own. It is time to face the reality that we need God back in our Society and our lives.
With the above I heartily agree.
What we are seeing today in America and around the World is a direct result of America turning her back on God and trying to expel Him from all areas of our Society and our lives….. Think about it.
With the above, I have reservations. We cannot know the mind of God or his acts. This is not the issue in the race for President. The economy and jobs and etc. are the issues. God may well be behind recent natural events but again, that is no the issue. It is what is behind our lack of jobs and etc. that we need to get at.
Man was given free will. He is an important player in events and how they take shape. God entrusted us with this responsibility and I believe we need to take it. Again, I respect a person’s religion. I just feel that there are degrees in everything and the degree to which Michele Bachman has gone to bypass important social issues and to focus on God’s punishment of the ungodly should not be subject to public debate but to discussion among her friends .
Love and thanks Sami
SH
The Morb
September 1, 2011
It’s all about people’s minds Sami … And among those are the ones in the past , with the intellectual level of an infant , that created this fiction that has poisoned a once promising species … By the relentless handing down of unintelligent , unlearned and unfounded nonsense to the generations that follow …
A weak mind clings to this like an infant to a warm blanket … It can be quite difficult to force that child to relinquish that blanket …
But that is what many of the world must do today …
samiam60
September 3, 2011
Tell me, how weak was this man’s mind?
samhenry
September 3, 2011
Interesting Vid Sami. The question isn’t does God exist. I am not sure what you are getting at here and I do believe wee have moved from a consideration of the candidates and what they are saying to what Citizen Tom and I are saying. The focus is candidates who go beyond recognizing one nation under God and try to characterize natural events as God’s justice.
samiam60
September 3, 2011
If you look real careful SamHenry you will note that I am replying to a comment from Morb. That is what the comment reply feature is for.
samhenry
September 3, 2011
Sorry I missed it, Sami. No wonder it felt like a non-sequitur. When I leave the format of the blog itself and go to comments behind the scenes, I get confused. Thanks for the clarification.
samhenry
September 3, 2011
Good response, Sami.
The Morb
September 3, 2011
Obviously under developed at that time in his life !!! … He contradicted himself three times !!! …
The Morb
September 3, 2011
And that was a direct comment toward your comment Sami …
samiam60
September 3, 2011
It’s all about people’s minds Morb … And among those are the ones in the past , with the intellectual level of an infant , that created this fiction called Evolution that has poisoned a once promising species … By the relentless handing down of Unintelligent , Unlearned and Unfounded Atheism to the generations that follow …
A weak mind clings to this like an infant to a warm blanket … It can be quite difficult to force that child to relinquish that blanket …
The Morb
September 3, 2011
A poor argument to paraphrase my point and simply insert ‘ evolution ‘ and ‘ atheism ‘ ! … And why do you title me ‘ atheist ‘ … i belong to no ‘ group ‘ of people … I think for myself , thank you … That is your your problem … You don’t …
samiam60
September 3, 2011
I very well do think for myself Morb, thus I have concluded that if you walk like an Atheist and talk like an Atheist you therefore must be an Atheist. The Term Atheist means: One who does not believe in the existence of a Higher Power. Just so you know.
samiam60
September 3, 2011
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
“Atheist”
Atheism is, in a broad sense, the rejection of belief in the existence of deities.[1] In a narrower sense, atheism is specifically the position that there are no deities.[2] Most inclusively, atheism is simply the absence of belief that any deities exist.[3] Atheism is contrasted with theism,[4][5] which in its most general form is the belief that at least one deity exists.[5][6]
The Morb
September 3, 2011
Really doing your homework Sami !!! … But you fail to understand ! … I don’t ‘ reject ‘ … I simply ‘ KNOW ‘ it’s a load of crap !!! …
samiam60
September 3, 2011
What do you base your knowledge on Morb. Can you provide a link to substantiate your claims or is this all just mindless dribble. You seem to be the only person here on the attack and yet you play the victim when responded to. Whats up with that?
The Morb
September 3, 2011
DarcsFalcon
September 2, 2011
Well Sam, I can tell you this – it’s not hard to know some of the things of the mind of God, since He shared some of it with us through the Bible.
That being said however, it’s hard for American Christians to understand that God is not American.
Jesus is, however, unquestionably Jewish.
samiam60
September 2, 2011
DarcsFalcon, thank you for that. I myself have always been amazed at how the great multitude of Gentiles came to Worship this Jewish Man Jesus as the very Son of God and how the same Jewish People by enlarge came to rejected Him as the Promised Messiah and to this day are awaiting the appearance of their own Messiah.
I also think the majority of Christians in America know full well that God is not an American but rather is the God who has Blessed America for her Faithfulness to Him. God is and always will be the God of Israel.
Freedom, by the way
September 2, 2011
SH: Interesting post. I re-read carefully what Michelle Bachman said and I’m not quite sure what you find unsettling. (Read her words without the context of the NY Times literary liscense about the skys opening up–give me a break) They (the Times) wanted you–and especially non religious people to have just the reaction you did by the way they wrapped a story around what she actually said. She prayed for our prez, courts and congress and she thanked God for Iowa. What is wrong with that?
If faith is an important componenet in any candidate’s life, I want to know that upfront. I think much of the uneasiness with Obama is that he has never been totally clear about his faith. If faith is not important, I want to know that too. I cannot say I would never vote for a candidate that does not believe in God, but it would be an important consideration in my decision.
samhenry
September 2, 2011
Free – the Bachman quote came from NEW YORK Magazine not the NEW YORK TIMES Magazine. It is still liberal but that voice is also welcome here. In that same article, a farmer in Iowa said what I think a lot of people feel even in the heartland:
“Bachmann’s social stances weren’t missed by David Watkins, a Moscow farmer at the afternoon speech. “The things she talked about today weren’t about being ultra-conservative,” said Watkins, who added that issues like traditional marriage and abortion don’t weigh heavily for him at the polls.”
That said, abortion is in politics and needs to be resolved somehow. Traditional marriage is also in politics and where it comes up on the ballot, views on that are important. However, SH “believes” that God has blessed the US with bounty to be carefully managed. Is he in the thunder heads above – if you believe that it is OKAY. If you don’t,, that is OKAY too. We are saved by virtue of the fact that all office holders have to uphold the Constitution and so much of the Western belief system is in that. I myself want a good family person and a moral person in office but what church they attend and the specifics of their beliefs are of no interest to me. That they are moral and family-loving is all I require. But this discussion is not about me – it is about having this discussion to get views and feelings out in a civilized forum and not yelling and screaming at each other or casting aspersions. Your comments are greatly appreciated here.
Sami – your devotion to GOD as the God of Israel is wonderful. That is your belief system. And in the US, you are still entitled to it. But we are one nation under God and most believe that all religions are expressions of one universal God. However God speaks to you – out of a tree as the Indians believed, from your inner being or a burning bush, all of those amount to GOD in the largest most universal sense. I respect the validity of other religions as long as they are not forced upon me and or change our constitution. The gift of the western culture was the gift of democracy as framed by our founding fathers. And through the years afterward by legislation over 200 years to right the wrongs of society. That is the gift of the God of Israel and His followers. It has been embraced far and wide elsewhere.
DF – Dear bird You have made an excellent point. As always you fly in and drop profound prose in what seem like simple terms. That is your gift.
My Morb – well you are in total agreement with a professor at Princeton University, Julian Jaynes, who wrote a book called “Consciousness and the bicameral mind.” In it he put forth the theory that the concept of God was developed during the period the the development of our brains. Our bicameral brain was still “talking” sphere to sphere. If you heard a voice emanating from a burning bush, it was conceivable that it was one half of your brain talking with the other. Thank you for stopping by with your viewpoint.
To all of my friends – I am gratified that we have had this discussion in the most civil terms possible. These are important feelings and issues that are not often discussed. This time more than at any other, they need to be discussed. We need to see each other as representatives of our views as diplomats for them. In this way we learn from one another and at the very least learn to respect each other. Thank you from a grateful SH, moderator, friend and God-fearing but all-embracing.
The Morb
September 3, 2011
You state ; ” expressions of ‘ one universal god ‘ … ?!!! … So many of theses ‘ stories ‘ contradict one another , hence the historic bloodshed in conflicts arising based on arguing who’s fairy tale is correct !!! …
I , again , invite all your readers to go to my blog and listen to George Carlin’s take on the whole concept … ( you’ll distinguish between the two that are there from the titles !!! … )
I suggest people relinquish their ‘ passing of responsibility ‘ and concentrate on being a productive , positive intangible among the living , yet finite , beings around them … Through the wonders of animal procreation we are born … We grow … We live … Some well … Other’s not … Some good … Some bad … We are but animals that come and go … We simply exist … Then we don’t … What happens between the time from egg fertilization to brain activity cessation … Is controlled ENTIRELY by the mind of the animal … Many of whom … Have spent ( WASTED !!! ) much time concocting fiction … And other’s blindly follow …
And Sam , I found it quite humorous that you ( most likely inadvertently ! ) referred to DF’s comment as ‘ bird droppings ‘ !!! …
Citizen Tom
September 3, 2011
samhenry — What I think confuses most people is that they commonly believe this statement.
Note how you don’t even believe it. In the very next sentence you correct yourself.
Because what we believe determines how we act, what we each believe about God becomes a public fact. Nevertheless, because God granted us the right, we each have the right to believe what we want to believe about God. None of us have the right to use government to force our beliefs upon another.
Would Michele Bachman use the office of the President to force her religious beliefs on others? I don’t think so. She opposes the growth of government; she would reduce it in power and scope. Reducing government power would cripple any effort she might make to impose her beliefs.
In our era, the greatest threat to religious liberty comes from those who call themselves Liberals, Progressives, or Democrats. They adore adore government and seek to grow its power. They so idolize government and their visions of Utopia they would force government into every crack and cranny of our lives. Left to their own designs, Democrats would leave nothing that any could call personal or private.
So it is that when someone is running for public office, I want to know what they believe about God. To protect my family and friends, I want to know which candidate wants to be a humble public servant, not the public’s master. Because Christians model themselves after Jesus, the greatest servant of all, I want to elect Christians. I see no reason to quibble or apologize for that.
When Liberals, Progressives, or Democrats castigate and ridicule Christians for for publicly advocating their beliefs, they mark themselves as hypocrites. When we advocate government without restraint, we strive to force everything we believe about anything upon our fellow citizens.
samiam60
September 3, 2011
Well said Citizen Tom, well said.
The Morb
September 3, 2011
Hey Tom … are you arguing the existence of a ‘ god ‘ … or spouting off your political views ?!!! … If a chap actually called Jesus existed … He was just a man !!! … And a very good
salesman !!! … All those lessor minds writing stories about his influence …
And to this day , people like yourself ‘ group ‘ together as ‘ Christians ‘ … On one hand stating their is this God and on the other spouting political verbal sewage toward people that don’t agree with your way of thinking …
It sure would be beneficial if you joined the real world !! … ALL of ya !!! … Christians , Muslims , Jews , Indians , Sun worshipers , Santa Clause believers … The tooth fairy … The Easter bunny … ON AND ON AND ON !!! …
THINK !!! …
samhenry
September 3, 2011
Citizen Tom – When you entered this forum in the company of “most people” and what they believe, it kind of put me on the defensive. I am one lone woman blogger!
The “statement” that follows [that I follow God's commandments] is not giving away a personal belief – just the foundation of our country’s own laws.
However, those commandments could be from any religion. Again, I don’t think it is contradictory to make a general statement. I do not get into detail.
I try to keep this an open forum and to do that I TRY to not let “me” get in the way of open, honest discussion.
I don’t discuss my political affiliation much to keep things open. You will find me slightly liberal in some areas; more conservative in others. I think the tenor and tone of this blog is testament to my general views.
I hope Michele Bachman was not “advocating her beliefs.” It is not the place of a publically elected official to do that in the administration of his/her duties. My disappointment was that she veered away from discussing issues to discussing a more doctrinal issue – God’s justice. Talk abortion or welfare state but don’t as a leader tell me I am being punished because of the way all of us have taken. That is judgmental and doctrinal.
We are still one nation under God but we represent people of all belief systems in this country and need to be sensitive to their beliefs. That is not political correctness. That is common courtesy.
It is you right to want to elect a Christian. What I said above is a testament to the Christian foundations of this nation. It would take a heck of a lot to overturn and the Constitution stands as the foundation at this writing. Think of the masses who have lived under that.
I sincerely appreciate your willingness to contribute and expand the discussion and I am grateful for your thoughtful response. It helped me to focus my position. Good discussion does that.
SH
Citizen Tom
September 3, 2011
Thank you samiam60.
samhenry – Thank you for the reply. I did not set out to put you on the defensive. Whether we like it or not, we are all on the defensive. Such seems to be our nature. Even when we have not overtly stated our point of view, our pride and our egos demand we defend our point of view.
Government exists either as a protector of our God-given rights or as a tool of domination. When our government grows big and dominating, it put us all on the defensive. Either we risk being among the oppressed, or we are with those trying to seize a tiger by the tail.
Our government does not and cannot represent all the belief systems in this country. Because some belief systems are evil, that is literally impossible. We can choose either good government or bad government. We cannot choose something in between.
Between good and evil, how can there be a point of moderation? Of what use to God or Satan is a lukewarm soul? None. So Satan insists we choose, God warns us to choose wisely. Isn’t indecision — a constant gnawing worry — itself Purgatory? Doesn’t t self delusion hide anguish as great as any evil might cause?
What good men and women confront each day is the puzzling problem of how. Our government has become corrupt. Without making the situation worse, how do we replace that bad government?
The Morb – The condemnation is easy, empty, and meaningless. Before I could defend even one Christian belief from an ignorant accusation, you have spouted twenty equally as absurd. Perhaps that is why you have told us what you are against and said so little about what you are for. You cannot take what you dish out.
The Morb
September 3, 2011
To the contrary Tom .. I have stated quite emphatically what I’m ‘ for ‘ … The reasoned thought of the individual mind … But you are so caught up in your fairy tale you missed that point …
I’ve always said … If it makes you a better person .. If you NEED that crutch upon which to lean to avoid being a pain in the ass to others … Then so be it …
Just stop talking like you actually have facts at your disposal … Your mind is tamed with fantasy …
The Morb
September 3, 2011
And I don’t think you have the least bit of credibility to insult me by calling me ‘ ignorant ‘ … Simply because I state the obvious that stifles the legitimacy of your ‘ faith ‘ in some ‘ supreme being ‘ calling the shots in your life …
The Morb
September 3, 2011
This rhetoric saddens me indeed …
samhenry
September 3, 2011
Citizen Tom – I am not delusional and I am not hiding from anything. And I certainly know the difference between good and evil.
But in this country there is freedom of religion.
Morb and Tom – let’s not sink into ad hominum comments. Morb is Canadian Tom and so he will have a different perspective. I ask that both of you each respect the other.
The discussion we are all having is the discussion the Republican Party needs to have within its ranks. We need to leave labels such as Tea Party, Blue Dog, etc. at the door. I fear the end of the GOP may be the upshot of this election. We cannot remain a house divided. We need to expend our energies on the election. If we can find that broad tent to cover all of our many views then we weill be successful.
Morb, he discussion here does not focus on whether there is or is not a GOD. The focus is how candidates handle God as politicians.
Tom, I don’t think there would be many takers for a quasi good/evil government. We need to keep our eye on the prize and to the greatest extent possible, to work together to effect this change.
Thanks for continuing the conversation.
The Morb
September 3, 2011
Sam … I may have drew my first breath a tad north of Lake Ontario … But it would not matter where I upon this earth I sprang from my mother’s loin !! … Why do you think being a ‘ Canadian ‘ would make a difference ?!!! … there’s plenty of ‘ god fearing ‘ individuals in my neck of the woods too !!! …
You know how I feel about this subject … and I shall respectfully rest my case … I don’t want to stir things up on your blog … I care too much about you …
I apologize if I’ve caused anyone to lose sleep …
I just speak for myself … NDI …
( No Deity Involved ) …
Citizen Tom
September 3, 2011
samhenry – Of course, you know there is difference between good and evil. However, we do not all agree what is good and what is evil. That’s is why the best we can hope for from government is that it will protect our God-given rights. The last thing we want from government is for it to represent people of all belief systems.
Consider our present conundrum. Because some people’s belief systems demand that government provide us our “rights”, we risk both losing our rights and going bankrupt .
Ask yourself this question. What kind of belief system twists the Constitution into a “living document” that spats out new rights?
As you yourself noted, this nation has a Christian foundation, essentially one system of belief. However, too many have let a secular government educate their children. So too few adults appreciate our nation’s the philosophical underpinnings.
Do all Christians share exactly the same beliefs? No. But the vast majority look to the Bible as authoritative. The confidence that generations put in the Good Book allowed Americans to create an unusually good government. How unusual? May I suggest the Gettysburg Address.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gettysburg_Address#Text_of_Gettysburg_Address
samhenry
September 3, 2011
Morb – you don’t have a vote in the election that is why I mention your nationality. I have addressed the adhominum issue. You have been quite restrained and I love you for that. I have to go to work. Later.
The Morb
September 3, 2011
Hope your work day swiftly passes by …
samhenry
September 4, 2011
Citizen Tom – my writings on the growing dependency of people on government in a caretaker state have been many in the past year. The health care legislation is geared to bring this country down. I am more than aware of the politics and theories behind that method of dismantling our nation state.
I do not believe that anyone of us voters here wishes any kind of evil to befall this country or that we disagree on what good and evil are. At almost 70, I grew up in a generation that questions many things but holds to basic beliefs of good and evil in our culture that are expressed in everything from the Bible to the pop culture of Star Wars.
I think I understand your comment:
The last thing we want from government is for it to represent people of all belief systems.
It has to do with allowing those belief systems to color our style of government and not that the people of different belief systems should not be represented. We have a representative form of government with one man, one vote. People vote with the idea that the person for whom they are voting does indeed represent them even if their religious belief systems differ. There are very talented people in government not even born here who are as dedicated to the founding principles as you and I and yet come out of different religious belief systems. If these principles were not universal, democracy would not have flourished in foreign lands with different religious belief systems.
As for Lincoln and the Gettysburg address, at a time when I practiced as an archivist, I processed the papers of one of the partners in the Western Union Company. If that telegraph line had not run to the coast, we would not have been a country.
Sadly, correspondence from the men laying the line and some of our politicians in Washington indicated that Lincoln was not universally loved and admired in his own time. His words resonate powerfully today but they did not always then.
I welcome and encourage all views here. Benjamin Franklin would have approved since he noted Iroquois Indian forms of government and adapted a few principles for our own federal government.
The argument put forth here is that politicians should stick to the political issues at hand. It may only be a matter of discomfort with one candidate’s style. I leave Obama’s soul to the almighty but his policies have been fought vigorously in this space.
samiam60
September 4, 2011
Nationally, more than 70 percent of Republicans and more than half of Democrats say it’s somewhat or very important that a presidential candidate have very strong religious beliefs, according to the Public Religion Research Institute.
Read more: http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2011/09/03/religion-plays-big-role-in-gop-race/#ixzz1Wys6GKcm
The Morb
September 4, 2011
So that makes it correct to believe in fairy tales ?!!! … I’d rather know that the ‘ leader ‘ of my country has a mind of his/her own and deal with the task at hand … Simply because a certain percentage of elected members of government have been brainwashed with this ancient DRIVEL !! … Doesn’t justify their decision making on our behalf … And certainly doesn’t imply competence on their part …
In fact , I question the qualifications , intelligence and ability of someone in that position , who blindly follows this imaginary , man created fantasy … to make decisions regarding my day to day life …
Again , it must be so peaceful and serene for you to curl up at night and say your prayers and everything is honky dory !! …
samiam60
September 4, 2011
I can only contend that the Atheists beliefs are a direct result of an action taken by God in which He gives them over to a Reprobate Mind
What do we know about someone who has a reprobate mind? We know from Romans 1:28 that the people under discussion did not like to retain God in their knowledge. As a result, God gave them over to this reprobate, depraved, disapproved and virtually worthless state of mind.
Romans 1:28-32
Romans 1:28-32 (King James Version)
28And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a reprobate mind, to do those things which are not convenient;
29Being filled with all unrighteousness, fornication, wickedness, covetousness, maliciousness; full of envy, murder, debate, deceit, malignity; whisperers,
30Backbiters, haters of God, despiteful, proud, boasters, inventors of evil things, disobedient to parents,
31Without understanding, covenantbreakers, without natural affection, implacable, unmerciful:
32Who knowing the judgment of God, that they which commit such things are worthy of death, not only do the same, but have pleasure in them that do them.
The Morb
September 4, 2011
You’re a riot Sami !!! … Carry on quotin’ all the fiction ya want ! … Means squat to me !!! LOL !!! ..
samhenry
September 4, 2011
Morb how would you like it if someone were to say to you anything you say means squat to me? Please moderate the tone.
samiam60
September 4, 2011
(I would rather live my life believing in God and dying to find out there isn’t one than to live my life believing there isn’t a God and dying to find out there is one.
samhenry
September 4, 2011
A beautiful way to live, Sami.
The Morb
September 4, 2011
I’ve heard that one more than once from people that suckle to the comforting tete of religion …
‘ Scared into believing ‘ … ‘ Playing it safe ‘ … ‘ Not sure of one’s own mind ‘ … ‘ Best say my hail Mary’s so god forgives me ‘ sort of thing …
Well , you can relax … When you’re dead … You won’t have a clue … You’ll have ceased to exist and know nothing because your brain is no longer functioning …
No pearly gates … No choruses of angels … No grey bearded big fella welcomin’ you into his glorious kingdom …
You will no longer be an active participant on the planet … You’ll be in it …
End of story …
The Morb
September 4, 2011
I’ve heard that one from more than one person caught up in this fearful , man created concept …
You won’t ‘ find out ‘ anything when you die … You’ll have ceased to exist … And you won’t ‘ know ‘ …
There will be no pearly gates , no choruses of angels , no grey bearded big fella forgivin’ all your sins …
Your static remains will no longer walk the earth … But lie beneath it … And you won’t know a thing …
So sleep well tonight
samiam60
September 4, 2011
samiam60
September 4, 2011
I am always amazed at atheist who don’t believe there is a God and yet spend their time criticizing people who do. If you don’t believe in God why should you care if anyone else does. Is it a case of if you don’t believe like me your wrong? The more they attack Godly People the more they prove there is a God. How ironic is that?
Citizen Tom
September 4, 2011
samiam60 Thank you.
I use to be agnostic. However, it slowly dawned on me the proof is everywhere we look.
After I had read the Bible a few times, I felt rather foolish. Then I felt relieved that I had done so.
samhenry
September 4, 2011
Good link for this post Sami. Thanks.
Citizen Tom
September 4, 2011
samhenry – To a large extent, we debate word choices and degrees of proper etiquette. Please do not misunderstand. For I recall Jesus’ words, “for whoever is not against us is for us” (Mark 9:40).
To get elected, a politician must convince a majority that he will represent their interests. Do those interests include aspects of their belief systems, including their religious beliefs? Yes. However, in a republic we expect to carry out our belief systems use private means. To maintain a republic, we avoid using government resources except when it is necessary to protect the public or the rights of individual citizens.
To maintain a republic, we must elect leaders whose belief systems require that they respect the rights of the individual. Here of late we have elected socialists, communists and just plain scoundrels. These have implemented their belief systems, and their beliefs vastly elevate the collective over the individual. Their rule has proven disastrous.
What we have discovered is that not everyone understands founding principles as you and I understand it. When we listen to the Gettysburg address, we must understand that there are a great many in this world whose belief system deny Lincoln’s words. What we have discovered is that we must fight for our republic or lose it.
samhenry
September 4, 2011
AMEN
The Morb
September 4, 2011
Sorry SamH … Had to get that last one in !!! … I’ll shut up now !!! …
samhenry
September 4, 2011
No one has to shut up here. They have only to be civil. Love ya Morb. You are welcome anytime. Don’t ever want to see the time when that icon does not show up. You know the title of the Canadian national anthem was born when someone overheard me to say to you “O Morb, what have you said.” LOL
samiam60
September 4, 2011
We Owe our Civilization to
God’s Laws not unproven theories like Global Warming and evolution. Now those are the Fairy tales of our time.
samhenry
September 4, 2011
Wow – you had quite an arrow in your quiver! Good shot for that Sami. You really do write well Sami, very well and are an excellent spokesperson for your point of view. You are so welcome here.
The Morb
September 4, 2011
And of course , the existence of a god has been proven !!! … at least evolution has some facts behind it and is far more logical than some magical invisible man in the clouds !!! …
Citizen Tom
September 4, 2011
The Morb – Why are you so angry? And who are you angry at? If some people want to believe in God, and they don’t force you to do anything you don’t want to do, why do you care?
The Morb
September 4, 2011
Why have my last two attempts at commenting failed to show up here Sam ? …
The Morb
September 4, 2011
After THREE attempts to reply to Sami directly on one of her comments directed at me … I shall attempt to do so once again … And ONLY ONCE again here !!! …
In response to her feeble minded statement that she’d ‘ rather believe in a god and die finding out there isn’t a one than not believing and finding out there is … ‘
I have heard that flawed logic more than once from thumpers I have come across in my life time … It is a ‘ safety valve ‘ for their mind … A blanket …
But fear not Sami … Don’t concern yourself …
When you die … There will be no pearly gates … No choruses of angels … No grey bearded big fella forgivin’ your sins and welcoming you into clouded mansion in the sky …
You will no longer know a thing …
No longer stumbling aimlessly across the soil of this planet … You’ll be in it …
You’ll be dead …
And won’t ‘ know ‘ a thing …
samhenry
September 4, 2011
Morb, Sami is a man who is a veteran of the Viet Nam War. I found your comments in spam.
samiam60
September 4, 2011
I am always amazed at atheist who don’t believe there is a God and yet spend their time criticizing people who do. If you don’t believe in God why should you care if anyone else does? My, my, my just look at how rattled you are!
samhenry
September 4, 2011
Sami
Your excellent point should have appeared without the personal comment “My, my, my just look at how rattled you are”! It is unlike you. I have spoken to Morb as well and have reminded him of the tenor and tone that is sought in debate here. Love SH
samiam60
September 5, 2011
Perhaps you should have spoken to Morb at the onset of his attacks SamHenry? This is what happens when you let things go unchecked. They spiral out of control. I stand by my last comment to the fullest as it was an observation of his latest rants.
samhenry
September 5, 2011
I did check him Sami. Look back to when I praised him for his restraint. I try first to support that. I know how really mad Morb can become. Sami I can’t always get here in time – can’t spend all day with the blog as a minder. Often I have to clean up after the fact. In the interim, such rants should be ignored. If someone engaged in personal attacks (not tolerated here) I would end my conversation with that person. You don’t have to alter your behavior to meet his. You are above that.
Morb knows he is out of line in his rants and apologizes. But your point is, all the same, well-taken. In the end, he should apologize to those of you who are religious for his lack of tolerance.
This is a test for the campaign, Sami. We will be up against this and worse. Think of Morb as having been a training partner representing the other side – both Democratic and the liberal wing of the Republican Party and the Independents. That’s a lot to take on for Conservatives. To win the day, you can’t always come out of your corner fighting.
Good, sound arguments that appeal to reason more than emotion will win people over and not exhaust Conservatives in the process.
That you continued to contribute here is noteworthy and a testament to your strong beliefs. Those will better win the day when they are not strongly presented. A good cake is enhanced by a sweet frosting. Love SH
samiam60
September 5, 2011
Morb, yours is the first comment of this blog and one in which you launch an all all assault on people of Faith and continue through the subsequent days with insulting and personal attacks against those who have expressed their experiences of Faith in response to your attacks.
How is it then that when challenged by those you have attacked you become the Victim?
Any descriptions of Atheism were done using Scripture and therefore perhaps your real argument is with God.
What is very telling is that you found the descriptions in those verses as describing you.
God’s Word will not return to Him void.
Citizen Tom
September 5, 2011
Not mad or rattled? Did anyone count the number of times “this” was suppose to be his last post?
The Morb – Look again at the first comment on this post. This is a blog. Why the expectation you can insult the beliefs of others not have your own beliefs questioned? That’s what you call rational?
I suppose this will sound preposterous to you, but it is true. It is when we do not know God loves us that we cannot behave sanely. You call that a crutch? Nonetheless, we all need God.
The Morb
September 4, 2011
NOW I’M PISSED !!!…
samhenry
September 4, 2011
Morb, I have no idea why your last two posts have not shown up. Did you look back up the line to see if they came in somewhere else? I have had that happen.
Calm down Morb. No one is cutting you off. You need to be a little more trusting. Same thing happened to Blackwatertown.
I will be happy if you moderate your tone generally in this discussion. We don’t have to get heated over this or any other topic.
blackwatertown
September 4, 2011
Hi SH – whoah, it’s hot in here.
Liked your original post – it’s a bit like patriotism or victimhood to my mind – any politician wrapping themselves up in religion is immediately suspect.
Though the threshold can vary. What may seem natural in the United States, may come across as crass in the UK. But who’s to say it’s not just more honest – Tony Blair famously “didn’t do God”, except we know he did.
I remember when Clinton to Belfast one time and began using religious language to a large crowd. He may have expected it to be welcomed in such a god-bothering sectarian religious-minded place. Or perhaps he was just being his normal God-fearing political self. Either way, it went down surprisingly badly. It just sounded too evangelical – as if he was aligning to a particular religious side of the argument. But I fear I’ve gone off on a tangent.
As an outsider, I’m not always clear when an American politician is crossing the line with religion, because it’s much more part of the normal political discourse. So Bachman’s Gott Mit Uns stinks as far as I’m concerned, but could seem completely innocent to others.
samhenry
September 4, 2011
Good to mention these societal differences Roo. It adds immeasurably to the debate. The same thing may be operative in our country on the part of individuals from different groups.
Citizen Tom
September 4, 2011
There is a good reason the issue of religion looms so large in American politics. One side is trying to force religion altogether out of our public life.
At the founding of our nation, everyone took it for granted that everyone else was a Christian. What they expected our government to avoid was sectarian strife. So our leaders talked about God, but they avoided preferential treatment for a particular religious sect.
What has changed in our time? Too many relied upon the public school system. Unfortunately, that system has gone from being a community-run affair to one where the Federal Government is itching to take full control. Therefore, milquetoast “character education” has replaced anything with even a remote resemblance to religious instruction. Most adults now know little about Christianity or its role in the history of our nation. They just think they know something.
That large population of ignorant adults has become a battleground. One political party wants everyone convinced that Christian teachings support a massive welfare state. The other political party weakly disagrees. Meanwhile, Tea Party favorites such as Michele Bachman support the idea of God-given rights and advocate a return to Constitutional government. And the news media chastises such people for mentioning God.
Think of the stupidity. We spend trillions on health, education, and welfare programs. These social programs must inevitably and deeply immerse our government in complex ethical and religious issues. Yet we are suppose to ignore God? Are they serious? Yes. These people are dead serious. That’s why they will go to a memorial for the dead and exclude clergy.
http://www.newsmax.com/Headline/bloomberg-911-bans-religion/2011/08/24/id/408556
samhenry
September 4, 2011
Good point CT.
There is a good reason the issue of religion looms so large in American politics. One side is trying to force religion altogether out of our public life.
blackwatertown
September 4, 2011
Oh dear. I wrote a long comment. Not sure what happened to it.
If you find it, jolly good.
Can’t face doing it again.
samhenry
September 4, 2011
Both you and Morb have had some comments go into Spam. I don’t know what is going on. I will report it to WordPress. Good to see you here. I will come visiting soon. I’ve been sick again this week.
samhenry
September 5, 2011
Morb, I have NEVER not published the comments of a friend to this blog but I cannot publish what you have just said – it carries the personal attacks forward. You cannot read what I said to Sami and then think you can do this.
I am as concerned about you as Sami. This is not a popularity contest. This is about issues. Please do nothing other than discuss the issues in a civil manner. You are welcome here anytime under these conditions. These are the conditions of every blog I visit.
The Morb
September 5, 2011
Obviously I have outstayed my welcome … I won’t bother you any more SamH … All the best.
samhenry
September 5, 2011
Morb, you need to take responsibility for your actions. Right now you are acting in a counterproductive way. I am disappointed in you. I will expect you here per usual.
I am a moderator and I have to moderate. You should respect the difficulty I face asking good friends to moderate their tone and watch their words.
Love ya, Morb
samhenry
September 5, 2011
As I have said countless times on this post, the subject is not about the value of Christianity or any other religion. It is about do we veer from the issues to go beyond our beliefs and into God as a force in nature. As Sami said, I should have caught this with Morb’s first remarks damning Christianity. Morb, I go on Muslim blogs all the time and never would I undercut their religion in the manner you have.
If you disagree with Christianity, there is a more civil way to express it. Let us all return to the subject at hand. I should not have to tell grown men and women this. I am Christian, Morb and your words were an attack on the people of that belief and not on the relative merits of the belief. So you see the difference?
No one actually wins a debate in a good debate. If all sides contribute in a positive way to the discussion. everyone wins through mutual understanding of and respect for divergent views. That is the goal of this blog.
samhenry
September 5, 2011
It is all in how things are presented. And that gets to Blackwatertown’s comment that in Europe, the evangelical type Christianity does not appeal to them. It is a matter of style in large.
Michele’s remarks about God’s wrath expressed in earthquakes and in hurricane seemed extraneous to one who does not follow her. At no time did I attack her religion. I did not attack her personally. I was against her methodology.
To those who read the post’s intent correctly, the responses had to do with yes they felt she should be able to express it to yes I want to know that a candidate is a person of faith.
At no time did the discussion center on the value of faith itself or of Christianity in particular.
As I have said, the difficulties we have had here will be difficulties that the Republicans will have to face both within the party and without with the true opposition. Let this be a good exercise in maintaining focus on issues and not people or their religion. It was about what Michele Bachman did, not what she believed or how I feel about her as a person.